NL 2.3 Possible Song Editor Update?
Sun, 06/28/2009 - 12:17
Recently on 8bc there was a discussion about how the "Song Editor" in NL 2.3 is "basic". I can't really voice my opinion on it as it is disabled in the demo, but from what I've read up about it, all you do is lay out your patterns into a song sequence and that's it. So yeah, I guess you can call that "basic"... Later in the discussion I think Oliver was asking for opinions/feedback to help improve the "Song Editor", so I decided to make some mock-ups.
What you see in the image above, is an enhanced "Song Editor". It uses the same layout as it currently does and functions just the same, but it will have a couple of new features and additional indicators for when one of the new features is being used. What these "Indicators" do, is let you know what step/pattern has been modified in the new "Song Step Editor" feature. When you would want to edit a "Pattern" within a "Step" in the "Song Editor", all you would have to do is select the "Step" and hold "L" and press "B" to enter the "Song Step Editor" to begin editing the pattern. Also, whenever you want to add a "Mute" to a whole step while in the "Song Editor", just select "X".
(Song Step Editor - Volume/Cut-Off Parameter)
"Song Step Editor" would have three parameters. The first in the menu would be "Volume/Cut-Off", the second "Transpose" and the third would be "Mix/Mute". Most of the original indicators from the Song Editor will pass over to the "Song Step Editor". For example, the hex numbers on the right that indicate what page is being viewed and playing and the Pause/Play indicator on the bottom left. On the top left, this indicator will tell you what "Channel" is selected and what "Step" (in hex numbers) of the currently viewed page in the "Song Editor" you are on. (Throughout the images, the step in the "Song Editor" that's being modified is "Channel S, Step 9" on "Page 0".)
While in the Song Step Editor you would be able to "Play/Stop" the Step/Pattern that you are currently editing while the song isn't playing (or "Pause/Resume" the song if it is playing) by pressing "START". If you would like to select another Step/Pattern to edit, you can change the "Channel" by moving the D-PAD up or down and change the "Step" by holding "A" and moving the D-PAD left or right. If you would like to move to the Next or Previous page in the Song Editor to further edit another Step/Pattern in the "Song Step Editor" without going back into the "Song Editor", you would just have to press "R" for next page and "L" for previous page. Also, anytime you'd like to return to the "Song Editor", just press "SELECT".
In the "Volume/Cut-Off" parameter (The image above only shows the Volume adjustments.), to adjust the Volume you would simply hold "B" and move D-PAD up or down. To adjust the Cut-Off, you would also hold "B", but move the D-PAD left or right.
(Song Step Editor - Transpose Parameter)
In the "Transpose" parameter, you would be able to adjust the pitch to a lower or higher key by holding "B" and moving the D-PAD up or down. The default position (that plays the original pitch) would be a horizontal line in the center of the step.
(Song Step Editor - Mix Parameter - Default Layout)
(Song Step Editor - Mix Parameter - Edited Layout)
In the "Mix" parameter, you would be able to manipulate the steps by rearranging and/or repeating them. To select a "Steps" hex number, hold "B" and move the D-PAD up or down. If you would like to add mutes, you can, by selecting "X". And, If you would like to sustain notes in a step, further into the next step, just select "-" in the following step.
While making any edits to a pattern in the "Song Step Editor", it would not effect or change anything in original pattern in any way. These edits would only be used to further expand the original patterns by adding more flexibility and complexity to them while being used in the "Song Editor".
Sun, 08/09/2009 - 04:21
#2
One small feature I would like would be a slight offset of the background color on the song/file screens. There are 16 colums and its a little tricky for me work out if I am on the 7th column or 8th column for example.
If the song/file screen had a slightly darker background color, say light grey, for columns 5 to 8 and 13 to 16. It would be a great deal clearer for me.
Wed, 08/12/2009 - 21:09
#3
A block cut and paste function would be nice and speed up the composing process.
Thu, 08/13/2009 - 13:42
#4
i for one like it how it is...though the background color idea for columns 1-8 vs. 9-16 sounds good
Fri, 08/14/2009 - 07:51
#5
Flanboy wrote:
A block cut and paste function would be nice and speed up the composing process.
ditto here. and an "insert/delete column" or "shift selection R or L" would be great for adding an intro after writing the hook or similar non-linear writing.
Sat, 08/15/2009 - 10:23
#6
Yep, a cut & paste function, as well as the aforementioned insert/delete and shit left/right would be very nice indeed.
And a way to have each track loop between two patterns in the song screen instead of just looping between the first pattern of the first screen and the last pattern of the last screen. This, and of course an easy way to change the start/end markers, would allow much more dynamic live performances (similar to the way LSDj's live mode works).
Thu, 08/20/2009 - 21:06
#7
more than fifteen four channel patterns per song seems necessary...or am i missing something? ie songs should be able to contain patterns from more than one bank.
also, looping options within the song editor would be good.
Sun, 08/30/2009 - 14:48
#8
Another thing that would be very useful is a global volume parameter for each track (set for each song).
Mon, 12/14/2009 - 19:16
#9
I would love to be able to return my saved slots back to their normal, non-highlighted state by loading up slot 0 and dropping it into whatever current slot I'm working with. Even if there's no data in that slot, it stays black and green. A bit confusing.
Tue, 12/15/2009 - 09:48
#10
press a+b+down.
Tue, 12/15/2009 - 16:28
#11
Thanks, oliver! So, I ran home from work yesterday, excited by the fact that I hadn't even thought to test out my shoulder buttons with key presses while using nl 2.3! I'm so used to using DMGs...
Anyways, as you can all tell I'm a bit behind on the collective learning curve, but I gotta say, I'm absolutely in love with 2.3. It's a fantastic piece of software and I'm having a ridiculous amount of fun working with it. I'd be overjoyed to see more features added that would capitalize on the presence of those shoulder buttons.
Mon, 12/21/2009 - 15:31
#12
Well nonfinite, I bought at release, and I didnt know this. Theres always something you didnt know about 2.3.
Mon, 12/21/2009 - 21:10
#13
It's in the manual.
Wed, 12/23/2009 - 08:28
#14
I'd love to have the filter and volume offset settings per track and song step from NL2.2 and prior versions again.
Sat, 12/26/2009 - 23:01
#15
I think editing sequences while the song continues to play would be nifty. As in, if I have my whole track queued up to play through itself, but I'd like to play with the envelopes or filters of one channel while the song continues to progress as opposed to stopping and just looping the current set of loops. That would open up a very wide range of dynamics for a live setting, methinks.
Fri, 01/01/2010 - 02:33
#16
i always though that a simple loop function within the song editor would be awesome. like if you have a bunch of patterns on one screen you can highlight a small part and loop it instead of it going through the whole song. some times i just want a verse an chorus to loop over and over when i write so make i can make up guitar and vocal parts over it with out having to constantly fiddle with the game boy. i hope i got my across.
Mon, 02/01/2010 - 16:04
#17
Beware wrote:
I think editing sequences while the song continues to play would be nifty. As in, if I have my whole track queued up to play through itself, but I'd like to play with the envelopes or filters of one channel while the song continues to progress as opposed to stopping and just looping the current set of loops. That would open up a very wide range of dynamics for a live setting, methinks.
This would be a monumental change... is this possible, oliver?
Mon, 02/01/2010 - 17:27
#18
the patterns are loaded from flash memory during song playback. to edit them, they need to be in RAM. that should be possible on GBA, it would just require some additional "save project" function at some point to keep the changes made during song playback.
Thu, 02/04/2010 - 19:22
#19
If it's possible and easily obtainable, this would be the single thing I would recommend implementing most on the next version. I saw a comment from Henryhomesweet on 8bc that got me thinking about this recently, apparently he doesn't use the song screen at all, he just manually triggers loops so he can edit parameters. I'd like to learn how to do this better but it seems a bit limited compared to the possibility of arranging an order in song mode. Anyways, manually triggering and editing would require some skill and speed, and you might have to strategically place your loops as well so you can a+^ at the right time to trigger all at key moments.
I've fallen in love with 2.3. I've been working with LSDJ for 3 years and have never had as much fun as I'm currently having with nl running on an SP.
Thu, 02/04/2010 - 20:15
#20
nonfinite wrote:
I saw a comment from Henryhomesweet on 8bc that got me thinking about this recently, apparently he doesn't use the song screen at all, he just manually triggers loops so he can edit parameters.
This is what I have been doing for the past few months since I got 2.3, its so difficult to do it all quickly! I really don't know how Henry Homesweet manages some of the things he does!
Sun, 02/07/2010 - 06:05
#21
I am the same, I dont really get on with the song editor, I do everything manually loading loops.
Mon, 02/08/2010 - 21:56
#22
Yeah, I'm just going to say it again, this change would be...huge.
Tue, 03/02/2010 - 16:33
#23
I like the site redesign, Oliver.
Every once in awhile I like to come back to this thread and stare lovingly at Mr. E's pics. My fingers are crossed, I'm hoping there will be a 2.x update some day in the near future.
Tue, 03/02/2010 - 16:56
#24
Another thought... I'm really miserly with my slots in each bank due to their limited numbers, 1-F. If you could program nanoloop to switch to a new bank through the song editor at a certain point in the song progression, you could use loops a lot less sparingly. Maybe have a key combination drop your cursor beneath the rows?
Tue, 03/09/2010 - 22:09
#25
I had an idea this morning. An expansion on my last post. Instead of using the space below for buffer jumps, use the space above that is already used for naming your songs!
Currently you can enter in 0-9 A-Z in several squares above. Change this to allow entry of one character above each column. Use three series of characters:
Black characters denote text, ignored by program.
Red characters indicate repeat code, program loops the sequences underneath that character x number of times. Value can be 1-9.
Green characters indicate jump code. Program reads value and jumps to corresponding bank. (This will need tweaking, as banks are categorized with two characters, not one.)
Thank you for the feedback. I'm sorry I didn't have the time to look at your proposals earlier.
Wouldn't it be simpler to add a complete in-song pattern mode? You could have an additional number, say "y", to select which would be a pattern that only exists within this step of the song. Like you proposed, but with the normal pattenr editor.
In either case a problem would be memory: If you could fill the entire song with custom patterns, that would dramatically reduce the available number of banks.